What I actually tried to do with tolerance is expo...

2008-03-19T21:48:00.000+01:00

What I actually tried to do with tolerance is expose it as an undesirable construct - tolerance doesn't mean acceptance, understanding or finding a balance, it merely serves as a temporary status quo. Yes, perhaps it does prevent you from killing me, but only temporarily, the mid- and long-term outcome is still the same. It guarantees (or forbids) nothing, it's only an abetment for anyone who avoids finding an actual solution. To put it short: tolerance is not a value.

Also, I view tolerance as binary in qualitative sense, either on or off - but tolerance of different issues does not have to be all positive or all negative.

Worst of all -and as I said in the post - tolerance is not based on direct rational basis or an accumulation of trial-and-error knowledge (tradition) but rather on a strictly defensive function of a pacified or subjugated individual.

On Islam: I think you're operating without enough information here, the fact is that contemporary Islam contains crucial mechanisms that are preventing it from entering a process of moderation.
The few outspoken moderates are shunned and eventually forced to flee or be killed. There is not a single moderate Muslim organization in the world today. Even those who are seen as moderates in the West claim that there is only one Islam (take the current Turkish Prime Minister for example).
Prospects for Islam to shake off its volatility are certainly not good.

But I feel that I do have to take a stand... as Wafa Sultan said: Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don’t throw them at me. I'm not forcing anyone (not) to believe in stones, it's the throwing that has to be stopped before more people get hurt.

I agree that appeasement and too much of tolerance...

2008-03-19T18:55:00.000+01:00

I agree that appeasement and too much of tolerance can lead to undesirable outcomes, but the real question is, where is the limit. Balance is the key here. Tolerance is a positive and a much needed thing, because we have to be tolerant up to a certain point simply to coexist in a society. An extreme example would be you killing me, because I disagreed with your opinion in this post. You take your tolerance of different views for granted because your tolerance is set to a certain level, which as far as I know is pretty high, especially compared to the rest of the - perhaps less gloablized - world.

Secondly, you assume that Islam is fundamentaly incompatible with westeren societies and that peacueful coexistence and reconciliation is imposible. I think that Islam should be pushed into the mainstream, as that is the only way te de-radicalize it. Islam is here to stay and the alternative to being mainstream is only more separation from the western society and values and radicalization. I do however agree that the tolerance stops if and where it starts to encroach on the fundaments and values of the westeren society. Free speech for example is non-negotiable as is separation of religion and state and so forth.

I personally think that all religion is a thing of the past, but it is not upon me to force this view upon anyone. See, tolerance.

Comments on Z-lot: On European Appeasement and Tolerance

What I actually tried to do with tolerance is expo...

I agree that appeasement and too much of tolerance...